Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Mike Wilson | Pittsburgh Penguins
Jun 5, 12:18 PM | Hype this story!
The list of contract problems is currently endless for the Penguins. Ray Shero brought together an all-star team to make a stride for the Cup, and the team, not the GM, failed. So, now, as a true test of general managing skills, Shero has to make something good out of the monster he’s created.
Currently, Gary Roberts, Ryan Malone, Marian Hossa, Georges Laraque, Jarkko Ruutu, Adam Hall, Kris Beech, Pascal Dupuis, (pause, breathe, almost done), Mark Eaton, Brooks Orpik, and Ty Conklin are all on the list to become unrestricted free agents.
But let’s focus in on the big names that will certainly get offers from other teams. The following are the three players in the spotlight and what might be going through their heads as to staying or going.
Marian Hossa
Though Hossa’s name is probably near third or fourth on the marquee right now, he knows he can get more than that. Not to mention, among all the other superstar offensive threats, he’s the only one serving in unrestricted free agency this year and there won’t be enough cap room for everybody. Besides, unloading a big price tag like that of Hossa’s will help make room for signing more third and fourth-liners that are nearly just as important.
But deep down in Hossa’s brain there has to be one other thought leaping out. Hossa wants to win. Remembering back to the trade deadline, Hossa said he wanted to play for a team that can win the cup and that he’s not just in it for the money. So now, a contradiction occurs. By this point, he knows he can’t have his cake and eat it too.
Hossa looked ten times happier in Pittsburgh than he did in Atlanta. The same would be true if he runs out of options and goes to a low income team with plenty of cap room and looking for talent, drooling over the thought of Marian Hossa coming to their team. So what means more to Hossa, the thought of a Stanley Cup over his head or more Euros in his pocket, will decide where he goes.
If, indeed, Lord Stanley is staying in his mind (which I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t be), and he is willing to take a pay cut, why not stay in Pittsburgh not only because he knows they can win the cup but also to avoid house shopping somewhere else. No doubt, he and Shero will have to discuss these sacrifices very soon.
Ryan Malone
This is now a name known around the league. Luckily for him, his situation isn’t as complex as Hossa’s. Malone has just gotten used to winning. Would he want to leave his hometown and the only team he’s played for in the NHL? The answer is no…at least not yet. And, I think, that answer will hold true for most players on the roster currently.
Malone might like the thought of a short, cheap contract (1-2 years) just to see how far this team really can go. If the Pens start looking like the NFL’s Buffalo Bills and not win championships but instead just make it to the finals (which is unlikely), then he’ll probably look to move on.
Brooks Orpik
Orpik is another Malone-like character. He’s a hard-nosed, underrated player who finally got his name in the spotlight in the Stanley Cup playoffs. He’s also faced with the same problem as Malone. Does Orpik go out and make a name for himself with another team right now or should he wait to win a cup with Pittsburgh?
There’s no doubt that he could get more money from a low-ranked team, but this is also the mud that has Hossa up to his hips. Is a cup in the near future more important than a jingling pocket in the near future and a cup in the long run?
I hate to sound like a broken record, but Orpik seems like the kind of guy who wants to test the waters in Pittsburgh for a little longer (maybe another 1-2 year contract) and then move on if nothing happens.
Surprisingly, Pittsburgh might not be in as much hot water as everyone says they are. After watching post-game coverage, some may have learned what such good shape Detroit is in contractually. The core of their team is covered, which should give hope to Pittsburgh. There’s no reason why the Penguins can’t get that way too.
The only Penguin who might have his ticket already in hand is Ty Conklin. Don’t get me wrong, Conklin was a big factor in getting us to where we are and he his very respected in Pittsburgh. But there is no room for him.
Conks knows he made a very good name for himself in the time where he was the starting goaltender and knows his unloading from Pittsburgh will create some much needed cap room. Though it’s not much, every bit counts since he won’t need to be replaced.
Another player who is very important in determining the fate of the defense is Mark Eaton. (Remember him?) The Penguins certainly didn’t get their money’s worth out of him with all his injuries. So, unloading him would certainly not be breaking apart the defense and, at the same time, providing Shero more cap room that doesn’t need replaced.
With “Roberts” and “retire” being mentioned frequently in the same sentence, that problem may solve itself. Though I’m sure many would be sorry to see him go.
So what about all those other players mentioned above? The Penguins were so close to the cup they could taste it. With the experience they need in the finals. Maybe one more go would be worth it.
However, I highly doubt that everyone on the team would be willing to take a pay cut just to stay one more year in Pittsburgh. Besides, with Fleury being a restricted free agent and Staal and Malkin becoming restricted free agents after next season, some money will need to be dished their way very soon as well.
So now let’s take a quick look from a general manager’s prospective. By their past actions, it seems as though Hossa, Malone, and Orpik might be three guys willing to talk to the Penguins before they start exploring any other options. So what does Shero do if the ball is in his court…or, since this is hockey, the puck is in his offensive zone?
If Shero lets Hossa go…
Pittsburgh would have some much needed cap room and still have sniping forwards like Crosby, Malkin and Sykora to work with for their contracts. There also wouldn’t be much need to worry about the third and fourth-liners if Hossa’s contract isn’t there (whether he takes a pay cut or not). The offense would still be in pretty good condition both contractually and strategically.
If Shero lets Malone go…
They can probably keep both Hossa and Orpik (as long as Hossa is still willing to take that pay cut he eluded to near the trade deadline). Coaching-wise, however, you lose another big man in the slot, especially if Roberts retires. This would mean that Jordan Staal would become much more important in the long run. Also, another personality would be lost in the locker room.
If Shero lets Orpik go…
Replace his loafers with clown shoes because the defense is ruined. The Pittsburgh blue line is an entirely different story from their offense. If one or two major offensive players leave, they can most likely be made up for. But the defense has come too far along only to be broken up now. But the big question is will the contracts of the players who might be leaving be enough cap room for everyone else.
The possibilities could include termination of contracts for Hossa/Malone, Eaton (if anyone wants him), Conklin, Hall, Roberts (due to retirement), and Taffe. But, lest we forget, we also have contracts to extend to Fleury, Staal, and Malkin soon, which might require more walkers.
Whether that will be enough or not is up to those players and Ray Shero. Needless to say, the Penguins have a long road ahead of them if they want to keep anything like the team they had on the bench these playoffs.
I think we all hope Mr. Shero can keep that magic of his coming because losing the Stanley Cup isn’t the only problem for Pittsburgh now.
Comments
Pens1967
Jun 5, 12:42 PM
I tend to agree about Hossa. He got a taste of the Cup last night and I think he’ll want to come back for a chance at the full course.
On one of the playoff post-game interviews, Orpik was asked about the UFAs, including himself, on the team. He said that he and Ryan Malone talked about it alot. I don’t know why, but I just had the impression that they were trying to sort out exactly the dilemna you describe.
Orpik also told Madden in a recent interview during the playoffs that he is willing to come back and is open to signing a new contract BEFORE July 1st.
I guess there’s another interpretation, but to me, Ryan Malone’s face said everything last night. I think he was the most heart-broken player on the team. Watching him, I just thought it must be going through his mind that he’s not going be denied another chance to help bring the Cup back to his hometown. I agree he’ll be back.
The one role player I think who will be offered a contract is Adam Hall. He came up big time in the playoffs when he got the chance to play. If Malone does not return, there’s your big body in front of the net on the PP and he’s skilled enough to play with Malkin.
But the other thing is, the Pens are pretty far under the cap. They have only 26M committed for next year, leaving them nearly 30M for player acqusition and contract extentions.
Mike Adams
Jun 5, 01:26 PM
Pens,
Adam Hall, a “big body in front of the net on the PP and he’s skilled enough to play with Malkin?”
You are kidding, right? I like Adam Hall, but he is a fourth-line player, period. He’s a good penalty killer, but he does not have the skill to be on the PP or on a top line.
Andrew R
Jun 5, 01:45 PM
The one option you do not mention here is that which saw Hartnall and Timonen go to Philly last year—that is, the trading of the negotiating rights of a UFA prior to July 1st.
Say the Pens realize they cannot resign Hossa. They trade the exclusive right to negotiate with him until July 1st and possibly recoup that 1st rounder they lost at the deadline or bring in a role player. These deals are usually conditional, based on the team receiving Hossa actually signing him. If they can’t sign him, the deal is off and the Pens lose nothing they wouldn’t have lost anyway. If he does resign, they get an asset (draft pick or player) they wouldn’t have had otherwise.
I would not be surprised to see Shero take this route to get some assets in return for losing an UFA.
Dabich
Jun 5, 02:00 PM
Mike, Pens may not be ay off the mark on Hall. he hasn’t been given any length of time on the top lines to see just what he CAN do. He seems to have settled in well with the Penguins. I won’t say he ISN’T capable of playing the second line. I will say he hasn’t been tested enough there.
Pens1967
Jun 5, 02:22 PM
Mike, Hall and Malone are similar players. Hall was a 2nd round choice in 1999 (Nash) and Malone was a 4th round choice in the same year (Pgh). Hall is only slightly smaller than Malone. On Malkin’s line, Malone’s job is to go to the net and be the digger/grinder. Hall does the same thing on the 4th line. I don’t really think it’s a reach that Hall could be interchangeable with Malone if given the chance.
Jonathan Farzalo
Jun 5, 06:24 PM
interchangeable? not as it stands now. you have to remember, while malone had a breakout year, he did put up some decent numbers in the past, rookie year, etc. Hall, while played great this post season, has never accomplished this.
i will conceed however, Hall, to my knowledge, has never got the chance on the top 2 lines on our team or any team really….so
Eric
Jun 5, 06:42 PM
Hall needs to prove he can score regularly to even be considered as a player of Malone’s caliber. Max Talbot played on the same lines as Hall did, and figured in the scoring more often. Hall is not interchangeable with Malone. Even given the chance, he doesn’t have the offensive flair needed to be a top 2 line contributor. I love the guy, I think he was one of the most underrated signings since they offered him a tryout. His work ethic is something every team needs. But, offensively he’s not there.
That being said, my early predictions for who will stay or go. Basing it on nothing, and not taking much into account the financial structure of the entire team.
Gary Roberts – Retired. Sadly.
Ryan Malone – Stays. If there is one person who would take a home-town discount it would be him.
Marian Hossa – Gone. He’ll want to stay, but the amount of money (8 mill +) he’ll get offered elsewhere will be too much. And I can’t blame him for taking the money, he’s earned it.
Georges Laraque – Gone. Cutting some salary, but will be missed.
Jarkko Ruutu – Complete toss up. Getting benched earlier in the year might affect his choice, or not. But I think he’ll at least test the waters.
Adam Hall – Stays. I hope. A valuable depth guy that this team could use.
Kris Beech – Gone. Too injury prone.
Pascal Dupuis – Gone to someone looking to fill a spot on the 2nd or 3rd line who is rebuilding.
Mark Eaton – Gone. Unless at a discounted rate. He’s a too injury prone to sign him to a similar deal.
Brooks Orpik – Gone. Would like to see him stay, but I can see every team lining up for his services after his playoff performance.
Ty Conklin – Gone. If he can’t be promised that he could compete elsewhere for a #1 job by another team, then he’ll think about staying. But having Sabourin as a backup already signed could be the writing on the wall.
Just my two cents and I’m often more wrong than not. :)
Pens1967
Jun 6, 03:36 AM
Dupuis was asked directly if he wanted to stay by a reporter in a post-game 6 interview. Without hesitation, he replied:
“I want to stay” and what a great place Pgh was to play.
Eric
Jun 6, 07:52 AM
I’d never put much stock into a post-game interview when it comes to something like a player re-signing or not. I’ve seen countless times where players have either backed up their word on claiming they want to stay, or haven’t.
Pens1967
Jun 6, 09:16 AM
No offense, but whether you put stock in it or not, that’s what he said. And, why would he not want to come back? He’s not going to get superstar money and it’s a great situation Pgh. It remains to be seen if the Pens want him back or make an offer.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 6, 09:21 AM
For the record, I think Dupuis returns, though in a third line role.
Keep Hossa In Pittsburgh
Jun 6, 12:39 PM
Alright F/O Factor-I’m laying it all on the table here.
I think the Pens MUST resign Hossa by hook or by crook. He simply makes them a better, faster, more defensively sound team with his tremendous back-checking. If you have to let Malone go to do it, DO IT! Even if you have to let Fleury go. Look, Fleury is good and yes could be great, but he didn’t exactly accomplish what Patrick Roy did young in his career. Goalies are a dime a dozen. If you don’t believe me look no further than Chris Osgood, nowhere near being a great goalie but with the right team in front of him….Stanley Cup. Don’t give me his (Flower’s) great game 5. It was a fluke evidenced by his woeful game 6. A great goalie like Grant Fuhr for example would have won them both. So like I said Flower is good but in my opinion expendable. Conklin could have won the Cup if he had the Wings in front of him.
Good goalies steal games, great ones steal series. Don’t let the great Marian Hossa go. If you compare over the course of the Wings series, you will see that Hossa comes out stronger than Fleury did. No offense to Flower, I personally love watching him play and his potential is sky high, but if I’m Shero, Hossa ain’t going anywhere.
Keep Hossa In Pittsburgh
Jun 6, 01:26 PM
Okay, my 1st rant was based more on the fear of letting Hossa go and getting burned by him down the road. (Sorry Flower!)One more thought, I know you are going to lay the lumber to me but, how about trading Malkin? Think about it. You trade Malkin for say Zetterberg or a center iceman of his age and ilk. You get a top defensive D-man or two. Multiple draft picks. You keep Fleury. You keep Hossa. You keep Malone. Base the direction of the team on Crosby and Stall as your centers. You still have a great 1-2-3 punch up the middle. The problem of the Pens is that they can’t keep both Crosby and Malkin. My money is on Crosby it’s his team there is no ? about it. Malkin is going to demand more than the 8.7 Mil that Crosby makes. WTF??? That just can’t happen yes ESPECIALLY after 71’s playoff disappearing act. Stall was better than Malkin so shouldn’t Stall get more money? Shero, for God Sake Man, you can’t keep ‘em both! Let Geno go, get a kings ransom for him and keep the leadership of this team in place. With Hossa wearing the “A” next season.
Tom
Jun 6, 01:50 PM
Mike, A possible plan:
Player…....2008-2009…....2009-2010
Crosby…...$8,700,000….....$8,700,000
Malkin….........R….........8,700,000
Hossa….....7,500,000…......7,500,000
Fleury…....4,500,000…......4,500,000
Malone…....4,000,000…......4,500,000
Staal…..........R….........3,500,000
Sykora…....2,500,000…...........?
Orpik….....4,000,000…......4,000,000
Gonchar…...5,000,000…...........?
Letang….........R…..............R
Gill…......1,750,000?.............?
Scuderi….....950,000?.............?
Goligowski….....R…..............R
Laraque…...1,250,000…......1,250,000
The Pens’ core costs $40,150,000 in 2008-2009 with some $14,000,000 left for others and the rookie contracts designated by “R.” This list presumes a trade of Whitney, the right to negotiate with Conklin and Sydor (if he waives his no trade clause) to a low level team for a good prospect and a high draft choice (e.g. Atlanta for Esposito and a high draft pick to draft Schenn or Bogosian, both right shooting, physical defensemen). Surely Kennedy, Hall, Ruutu, DuPuis, Eaton and Curry cannot cost that much more. The problem arises in 2009-2010 when Malkin and Staal receive big money; however, considering that Gonchar, Gill, Sykora and Scuderi all become free agents, some financial/personnel decisions will need to be made. A good idea is to be conservative about handing out no-trade clauses.
The Pens ought to negotiate a staff position for Roberts. He may be needed in the event of another playoff and would be well rested.
Possible Lines:
Esposito, Crosby, Hossa
Malone, Malkin, Sykora
Kennedy, Staal, Dupuis
Ruutu, Hall, Laraque
Jeffrey, Cuputi, CPZ, Smith, Taffe, etc.
Possible Defensive pairings:
Gonchar, Orpik
Letang, Gill
Goligoski, Scudedri/Eaton
Possible Goalies:
Fleury, Curry
In my humble view, this team would be an improvement upon this year’s and would still leave room to plan ahead. There is still cap room to make it happen.
Ashley Gallant
Jun 6, 02:05 PM
Hossa, you say that goalies are a dime a dozen, but I don’t believe that for one second. I don’t care what team you have, you need to have great goaltending to win the Stanley Cup. Chris Osgood isn’t a HOFer, but he is a really good goalie who has been on 3 winning teams, twice as a starter.
I don’t buy the notion that anyone could’ve played goal for the Wings. Detroit couldn’t win with Hasek flopping around in the first round, and Osgood was solid enough to make the big saves when needed. In my eyes, he has not been given enough credit.
Now Malkin…I’ve been hearing a lot of rumours (and I emphasize that word) about his future with the team. The guys on TSN and Sportsnet have been talking about nothing else, or so it seems, for the last few days – perhaps fueled by Milbury’s comments, who knows.
To be honest, I’m not sure how I feel about the idea of trading him. I understand the logic behind it, because ‘apparently’ LA was willing to let go of Anze Kopitar, Dustin Brown and maybe someone else for Malkin (but that’s just a rumour, as far as I know). I don’t believe that Malkin can make more than Crosby, even though they both deserve the max salary, because that will be virtual suicide with the cap. I do not hold Malkin’s disappearing act in the SCF against him; we don’t know how healthy he was, and he’s a 21-year-old who just played in his first SCF.
There are so many great players on this team who deserve to be making a lot of money, and I think quite a few of them will have to take less money to stay in Pittsburgh. Even then, Shero is going to have to get creative and he is going to pull off a gutsy move.
At this point, I think the only thing that would surprise me would be if Shero traded Crosby. And while I may not completely agree with your ideas, you're thinking outside the box - which is something I think Shero will have to do very soon.
Aron
Jun 6, 02:23 PM
A big fat NO. You can’t trade Malkin…or at least a sane Pens fan shouldn’t even think of trading him. There’s no reason you give up a talent like that. Who’s a center iceman of his age and ilk? I can think of zero players in the NHL, other than Lecavalier that is even like him. He scores a ton, and one bad playoff series and you send him packing? I can understand your love for Hossa, he was great…but in your scenario you’re letting Malkin, Malone and Fleury go in order to keep Hossa? The Penguins are who they are because of those 3 + Crosby. I probably should just stop now…before i get riled up.
Tom
Jun 6, 02:39 PM
Aron, Read my comment to this article. There is no need to give up Malkin, Hossa, Staal, Orpik or any other core stars.
Keep Hossa In Pittsburgh
Jun 6, 02:52 PM
Greetings from the capital of Germany! You know Ashley, you are absolutely right about my stupid goalie comment. The elevator wasn’t at the top floor when I wrote that. I was panicked. But I do believe it was when the flash of trading Malkin arrived. It wouldn’t be the most popular move in the world, highly controversial, but imagine adding Kopitar and Brown, and see what they do with a team like this as compared to LA. I’m trying not to hold Malkin’s struggles this year against him, he carried this team on his back when “Slap Me Silly” was out and is a Hart Finalist, well deserved. I am convinced that Crosby would have won it again if not for the injury as well as Art Ross #2. I just don’t think he deserves more than the Captain who already has a multiple titles under his belt and is the face of the NHL. So if Shero is wise and so far he looks it, he will see that a Malkin trade is the only way to keep this team together as a contender. Imagine a full year of Crosby and Hossa! The goals, the passes…This could be the deadliest C/RW combo in modern NHL history (exception: Lemieux/Jagr). Thanks Ashley, a pleasure to hear from one of the sharpest hockey minds out there. KEEP HOSSA IN PITTSBURGH! Blogsite coming soon!
Keep Hossa In Pittsburgh
Jun 6, 03:01 PM
Aron,
There is no reason to get riled! Just think about the future of this team. You can’t have two players making half of the money. This is a team sport (expect for HOSSA of course). Of course there is only one Malkin a rare talent of the highest order, but who is the Captain of The Pittsburgh Penguins? I’m not saying get rid of 71 because of the SCF, I’m saying trade him so that the TEAM can still compete and we could almost have our pick of the league for a guy like Malkin and still keep HOSSA which is key for us to do anything next year. Don’t get mad Aron, just think and think HOSSA.
Tom
Jun 6, 03:15 PM
Keep Hossa in Pittsburgh, The salary cap will exceed $54,000,000. If Crosby is paid $8,700,000 and Malkin is paid $8,700,000 and Hossa is paid $7,500,000, the total is $24,900,000 — hardly half of the cap for all three. This entire panic is absurd. If Shero can spend up to the cap, the entire core plus can be retained. Trade Whitney, Sydor, Saborin, and the rights to Conklin for a good prospect and a high draft choice. That is what the Pens need. Remember, neither Malkin not Staal’s deal will effect 2008-2009. Get realistic.
Tom
Jun 6, 05:22 PM
Mike, A possible plan (revised with more accurate numbers):
Player…....2008-2009….......2009-2010
Crosby…...$8,700,000…......$8,700,000
Malkin….........R…..........8,700,000
Hossa….....7,500,000….......7,500,000
Fleury…....4,500,000….......4,500,000
Malone…....4,000,000….......4,500,000
Staal….........R…...........3,500,000
Sykora…....2,500,000…...........?
Orpik….....4,000,000….......4,000,000
Gonchar…...5,000,000…...............?
Letang…......835,000….........835,000
Gill…......2,100,000…..........?
Scuderi….....725,000…............?
Goligowski…....R…..............R
Laraque…...1,300,000….......1,300,000
The Pens’ core costs $40,905,000 in 2008-2009 with some $14,000,000 left for others and the rookie contracts designated by “R.” This list presumes a trade of Whitney, the right to negotiate with Conklin and Sydor (if he waives his no trade clause) to a low level team for a good prospect and a high draft choice (e.g. Atlanta for Esposito and a high draft pick to draft Schenn or Bogosian, both right shooting, physical defensemen). Surely Kennedy, Hall, Ruutu, DuPuis, Eaton and Curry cannot cost that much more. The problem arises in 2009-2010 when Malkin and Staal receive big money; however, considering that Gonchar, Gill, Sykora and Scuderi all become free agents, some financial/personnel decisions will need to be made. A good idea is to be conservative about handing out no-trade clauses.
The Pens ought to negotiate a staff position for Roberts. He may be needed in the event of another playoff and would be well rested.
Possible Lines:
Esposito, Crosby, Hossa
Malone, Malkin, Sykora
Kennedy, Staal, Dupuis
Ruutu, Hall, Laraque
Jeffrey, Cuputi, CPZ, Smith, Taffe, etc.
Possible Defensive pairings:
Gonchar, Orpik
Letang, Gill
Goligoski, Scudedri/Eaton
Possible Goalies:
Fleury, Curry
In my humble view, this team would be an improvement upon this year’s and would still leave room to plan ahead. There is still cap room to make it happen. Sorry for the column allignment but I cant seem to get it to allign a Word Perfect document.
Eric
Jun 6, 05:39 PM
Thank god you guys aren’t NHL GMs, all these presumed trades.. Crazy.
You make Mad Mike sound reasonable. (Sans Ashley – good points).
Keep Hossa In Pittsburgh
Jun 6, 06:05 PM
Well, WWED????? We’re waiting…..
Tom
Jun 6, 06:58 PM
Eric, Ashley and KEEP HOSSA IN PITTSBURGH, Do you think my numbers are incorrect or overly hopeful? Perhaps Whitney would not bring much in trade, but trading him and Sydor saves $6,500,000 against the cap and permits the Pens to keep Hossa, Malone and Orpik. Pretty good return if all you gen is a box of Cracker Jack.
Tom
Jun 6, 07:00 PM
Eric, Ashley and KEEP HOSSA IN PITTSBURGH, Do you think my numbers are incorrect or overly hopeful? Perhaps Whitney would not bring much in trade, but trading him and Sydor saves $6,500,000 against the cap and permits the Pens to keep Hossa, Malone and Orpik. Pretty good return if all you get is a box of Cracker Jack.
Eric
Jun 6, 09:33 PM
I think it’s less of a hockey decision to trade Whitney. I think it’s a bad business decision. Trading him would show the instability of a GM who isn’t willing to let a player play for at least two years of a contract he recently signed. What would that say to a player like Ryan Malone, Brooks Orpik or Marian Hossa? If they sign for a big contract and don’t completely live up to it, they could be gone after a year? That is an uncertainty that I think most teams should avoid. This isn’t a video game where you don’t have human consequences to worry about. The Penguins have come a long way to building themselves back up to a respectful organization that is dedicated to winning and is routinely making smart decisions on and off the ice. I would think that the pace they’re on right now would be an attraction to outside players looking for a place to play.
By the same token, I understand what you’re saying. Moving Whitney on some levels would make sense – IF it eventually worked out. However, I don’t think the risk is worth it. Nor do I think that the positives of dealing him outweigh the negatives.
I’m all for a GM who is willing to do what it takes to win. There isn’t a book to go by in these situations. So that makes things more difficult.
Making some quick moves to dump some salary doesn’t sound like Shero. He’s shown himself to be quite professional in his approach to the nuances of being the GM. And I hope it stays that way.
As far as the numbers, I don’t know if they are correct. I don’t think it will be as easy to retain everyone. I would hope that the Penguins don’t take a stab at getting Esposito back. Let alone appoint him to a 1st line.
Tom
Jun 7, 03:23 PM
Eric, Who plays defense? Gonchar ($5,000,000)and hopefully Orpik $4,000,000?), Letang ($835,000)and Gill ($2,100,000), Scuderi ($712,000), Eaton ($1,600,000?), Sydor($2,500,000), Whitney($4,000,000) or Goligoski ($984,000)? That is nine. Two must eliminated from a roster carrying seven defensemen. In my opinion Goligoski and Eaton are far better defensemen that Sydor and Whitney and consume far less cap room. Trading Whitney and Sydor improves the team, eliminates any cap problem and can gain some return. Both Whitney and Sydor were defensive liabilities that had to be covered by others. Regardless of what a nice guy Whitney is, and regardless of his offensive potential, he is not helping the team. Sydor can neither defend nor attack and needs to be with a team with lesser expectations from its defensemen. The numbers make the trade a good business decision. Perhaps others will become aware that performance is expected of them as well.
Eric
Jun 7, 04:44 PM
First off Eaton is UFA, so bringing him back would negate your point of having an excess amount of defensemen. Why sign another dman if you’re planning on signing Orpik, which indicates you are. Goligoski is a rookie and is not better defensively than Whitney. He’s not. He will be, but he’s not. I don’t get the urgency to rush the youngsters, unless they are ready. I don’t see Goligoski playing till 09-10. There is no need to rush him. As he still has a 2-way contract and will likely develop in WBS till he can be used effectively in PGH.
Also, like I said before. I don’t think it’s smart to make these moves based purely on salaries. It shows that Shero isn’t planning ahead if he moves Whitney. Why sign a guy to a long term deal if you’re just going to trade him in a year? I don’t see that happening enough in the NHL to buy into your reasons.
I guess Whitney is the new whipping boy and I’ll just have to accept it from Penguin nation. Yinz know..
Tom
Jun 7, 05:54 PM
Eric, I did not like the Whitney contract when Shero made it. It is overpaying a defenseman with little defensive talent. Eaton is a far better defenseman and will be paid far less. Goligoski is a superior player. He skates well, has greater vision for distribution of the puck and seems not to make the giveaways for which Whitney has become known. High paid non-performers rightly become “whipping boys.” The Pens need defensemen who perform well in the defensive zone. Based on the past year, that does not include Sydor or Whitney. An old college coach of mine said “when you get down to the goal line, remember what got you there.” The kids got the Pens where they are. More kids will only improve their performance.
By the way, when I saw him, Esposito impressed me as a superior skater and puck handler. I believe he would profit greatly from playing with the young talent of the Pens if we could regain the rights to him. He is not a mucker and grinder necessary for a third or fourth liner.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 8, 10:47 AM
Tom, it’s all well and good to suggest keeping Eaton over Whitney, saying Eaton is better and will make far less. But Whitney is a different type of defender. He’s a powerplay-type guy, who handles himself adequately in the defensive zone when on his game. Unfortunately, he had a bad year this year, and that clouds things. Eaton is a better defender than Whitney, but he is not a better player — as indicated by salaries and status around the league. Even so, Eaton has had two major injuries in his two years in Pittsburgh. While I don’t believe either is a result of being injury prone, I also think it’s time to move on.
As far as Goligoski being a superior talent, I’m not sure how that can be determined when he has played in just a couple NHL games. Sure, he’s tearing it up in the AHL, but many players do that and don’t amount to much in the NHL. My point is not that Goligoski won’t amount to anything — I think he will — but that being better than Whitney in his rookie season is far from a foregone conclusion. Another thing about Goligoski is his size. You tend to like guys who play the body and hit with authority. If that is true, you’ll hate Goligoski, who looks like a slight blow of the wind will knock him over. He’s tiny — and must add a lot of muscle before getting a regular shift in the NHL.
Which leads me to Esposito. He’s also way too small to play in the NHL right now. But even if he was, it wouldn’t be for the Penguins. He’s gone. He was traded away — he’s not coming back. Forget about him.
Tom
Jun 8, 10:24 PM
Matt, The only defensemen the Pens have that regularly take the body are Orpik, Letang and in his own way Gill. Whitney and Gonchar occasionly hit during the finals and Scuderi’s and Sydor’s attempts were pathetic. Goligoski, despite his size, cannot do any worse. I agree that he needs to bulk up. As far as Esposito is concerned, he is a talent and he is thin. I used him as an example of an available prospect should Whitney and Sydor be traded. There are other teams with other prospects and young players. I should gladly trade Whitney, Sabourin, Sydor and a bag of chips for Mark Staal. Can you arrange that with the Rags (lol)? On second thought, throw in Scuderi as well. Gonchar and Orpik, Letang and Gill, Goligoski or Eaton and Staal. Say Hi to Lord Stanley!
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 9, 07:44 AM
Tom, Goligoski IS worse. He’s not even 180 pounds! You’re letting your personal feelings for Whitney and Sydor cloud the issue. Sydor, Whitney and Scuderi hit — but that’s not their main role, so discussing their hitting abilities would be like discussing the offensive abilities of a fourth liner. Each player has a role, and not every defender has to be a hitter. Whitney, despite being so horrible in many people’s eyes, finished the season with 40 points and a minus-two rating. That’s far from horrible. Not great, but far from horrible.
Whitney is a 24 year-old playing in his second full season. While I am not against trading him, doing so because he isn’t the defenseman people want him to be is just the wrong reason. This is a guy who has the potential to be an elite offensive defender. He was given a longterm contract because management feels he’s worth it. The only way he’s traded is if someone is offering a heck of a lot for him.
With that being said, if Whitney is so bad, why would the Rangers give up Marc Staal, who is one of the league’s top defensive youngsters? He’s huge, physical and plays a decent offensive game. Plus he comes from a hockey family with a great work ethic. You think Sabourin, Sydor and Scuderi — guys who you do nothing but complain about — would spice up the deal? If they’re so bad, why on earth would the Rangers even look at this?
Mark my words, unless Goligoski puts on 10-15 pounds of solid muscle this summer, he won’t be in the NHL. He’ll be dominated in every facet of the word. And, as far as Eaton is concerned, I’d tread on light water with him, as he has had two major injuries in the past two years. While neither are injury-prone type injuries, caution is a word that comes to mind.
Tom
Jun 11, 01:07 AM
Matt, I proposed Mark Staal (who is not huge and was easily manhandled by his friend Letang) as a joke because of your criticism of Esposito and a draft pick. I do not expect the Rags to trade him for Whitney, Sydor, Scuderi, Sabourin and the rights to Conklin. I do not constantly complain about Scuderi or Sabourin who are useful but not exceptional players. I am criticl of Whitney and Sydor whom I believe to be defensive liabilities. Try to lighten up and recognize humor for what it is. I know that it must be hard, but you may live longer.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 11, 08:13 AM
Tom, if you don’t like my discussions, I suggest going elsewhere. Everyone that reads the comments segments on FF realizes you dislike Whitney and love Letang. You talk about little else. Try moving on to some different subjects. I strongly recommend it.
stoopidful
Jun 11, 09:38 PM
Matt, I’m sorry that my writing about the possibilities of keeping Malone, Hossa and Orpik at the expense of Whitney and Sydor offends you and your commentors. It seems to me to be the cap conscious thing to do. I do not hate Whitney, only his contract. In fact, if you will look back to the Ranger and Philadelphia series I was a constant backer of the Genius’ pairing of Whitney with Letang. I do feel that Malone, Orpik and Hossa are better players. Sorry to be critical of your misstatements such as Mark Staal being huge. Please consider this a sincere effort to you for anything I may have said that made you think I dislike your discussions. Disagreement is not dislike. In fact I immensely enjoy your and others’ discussions, no matter how much I may disagree with what you say.
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