What Is GM Shero To Do?
Matt Bodenschatz | Pittsburgh Penguins
Jun 9, 12:55 PM | Hype this story!
With nearly a week separating us from the Stanley Cup, and just over three weeks until the start of free agency, July 1, it’s time to examine the Pittsburgh Penguins with an eye for what general manager Ray Shero should do.
The following piece is broken into three segments: current player statuses, what moves should be made, and what the roster should look like next season.
Keep in mind, this is one writer’s point of view, and we’d love to hear what you have to say regarding the issue!
The Current Roster
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| • UFA
– Unrestricted free agent; can sign with any NHL team after July 1. • RFA – Restricted free agent; no longer under contract after July 1, but still property of the Penguins. • * – Indicates a player is under contract, but will become a RFA July 1, 2009. A contract extension can begin to be negotiated July 1, 2008. |
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| • RFAs can be signed by other teams, though the Penguins have the right to match an offer. If a RFA player is signed away from the Penguins, the Penguins will receive compensatory draft picks. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The Moves
So, with the above information reviewed, it’s easy to see that Shero has a very difficult summer ahead of him. Not only does he have to worry about the 2008/09 season, but also years beyond.
Let’s start with the unrestricted free agents.
With the need to pinch pennies, expensive role players just won’t cut it. That’s why Georges Laraque and Gary Roberts won’t be back. Laraque likely will want more than the $1.3 million he made this season, and he just isn’t worth it, as a younger fighter can be had for a third of his price. Roberts is a little more difficult. After all, he is the Hockey God. But, with his injury history and age working against him, it just makes little sense to retain his rights. There’s also the possibility he’ll retire, but don’t expect the Pittsburgh cult hero to return in a coaching capacity, as he has said he wants a few years to spend time with his family, and not be on the road.
That leads us to the next tier, which consists of the inexpensive role players. This list includes NHLers Pascal Dupuis, Jarkko Ruutu, Ty Conklin, Jeff Taffe, Kris Beech, Adam Hall and Mark Eaton, as well as minor leaguers Jonathan Filewich, Ryan Stone, Tim Brent, Conner James, Nathan Smith, Alain Nasreddine and Ryan Lannon.
Dupuis may have been out of his element on the top line, but his defensive play makes him a perfect fit somewhere on the roster. He stays. Ruutu found his groove this year and was the player many were looking for. He’s openly talked about playing for the Penguins in upcoming years and likely won’t seek an increase in pay, so he should stay. Taffe and Hall have done a great job filling out the bottom lines, and likely will sign for minimal pay raises. Let’s keep them. Let’s also keep Filewich, Stone, James and Lannon, all of whom are young and have the potential to find themselves in supporting roles in the NHL soon.
Eaton has been solid when healthy, but how often is that? It’s time to move on. Conklin was great when Fleury was out, but the problem is, he’ll be seeking a big pay raise and a chance to be a starter. With Sabourin under contract, he’s expendable. Beech was insurance during a time of injuries and won’t return. Nasreddine has said he’ll move on, seeking an NHL gig. That leaves Smith and Brent, who were nice minor league players. They’re in the “dime-a-dozen” category, but if the price is cheap, they add leadership and experience at the AHL level.
Moving along, we have what I like to call the “big four”: Marian Hossa, Ryan Malone, Brooks Orpik and Marc-Andre Fleury. We’ll start with the easiest, which is Fleury. After the way he played down the stretch and into the playoffs, it’s clear he’s emerged as a superstar goaltender. He’s a must sign player.
Then it becomes cloudy. Hossa, Malone and Orpik all bring a slew of positives, but with the temptation of free agency in their minds, they won’t stay cheaply. Rumors have swirled that Hossa is willing to take a pay cut to stay, but how much, exactly? There’s also the same talk for Malone, who is a native of Pittsburgh. But again, how much of a pay cut will he take?
As much as I hate to say it, as Malone is such a warrior, Hossa and Orpik should be the priorities. The overall play Hossa brings makes him the perfect first line winger to compliment Crosby. Losing him means Shero will have to seek a replacement in free agency. And, as we’ve seen with Nils Ekman, Ziggy Palffy and Mark Recchi, not everyone is capable of playing with Crosby. Knowing that Hossa has the ability to do so makes him even more valuable. Orpik’s physicality is irreplaceable, as he’s one of the most physical defensemen in the league. With his late-season emergence, he’s become a first-pairing shutdown defender, something the Penguins just don’t have outside of him. He must stay.
Sadly, that means Malone likely is to go. Unless Shero works some magic and finds a way to keep the “big four” at reduced prices, Malone will have to go. He’s been a great player, but his statistics are nothing in comparison to Hossa’s. And, with Sykora already on Malkin’s line, the focus needs to be on retaining a winger for Crosby. Malone’s been a fan favorite and a favorite of mine, as we’ve watched him grow into a power forward, but sometimes popular players must be let go for the better of the team.
Lastly, we have the RFAs-to-be: Evgeni Malkin, Jordan Staal, and Max Talbot. All three have a year left on their contract and all three have proven their worth to this team. It’s time to reward all with long-term contracts to make sure they remain in Pittsburgh for years to come.
What It All Amounts To
With the difficult part out of the way, let’s take a look at what the roster will look like without the addition of outside free agents.
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Since free agency is a very tricky process that often sees many players get paid much more than anticipated, I have no interest in projecting salaries, which means I have no interest in projecting how much cap space the Penguins will have after signing their free agents.
It’s also important to note that my list of moves above is based under the assumption that players such as Hossa and Orpik sign at a reasonable price. For example, if Hossa seeks a top-dollar contract, he should and will be gone. But if he stays true to his word that winning is more important than his contract, he likely will be retained.
With that being said, here is my projected roster, complete with holes:
_____ – Crosby – Hossa
_____ – Malkin – Sykora
Dupuis – Staal – Kennedy
Ruutu– Talbot – Hall
Ex: Taffe
Orpik – Gonchar
Scuderi – Whitney
Letang – Gill
Ex: Sydor
Fleury
Sabourin
Now, looking at that roster, there is an obvious dearth of left wingers to which I have a solution.
To fill the void, shift Staal to left wing and place him on Malkin’s line. Two years ago, Staal found the back of the net 29 times as a left winger and showed plenty of chemistry with Malkin. After a stellar performance in the playoffs this year, he is deserving of additional ice time. This also creates room for Talbot on the third line, where he also would get additional ice time.
That leaves this:
_____ – Crosby – Hossa
Staal – Malkin – Sykora
Dupuis – Talbot – Kennedy
Ruutu – _____ – Hall
With those shifts, it would appear the Penguins have a need for a first line left wing, a fourth line center, and a fighter.
To fill the wing position, the Penguins don’t need a superstar, just someone to compliment Crosby and Hossa. The following free agents come to mind: Antti Miettinen, Niklas Hagman and Kristian Huselius. There’s also indication that the Edmonton Oilers might be looking to trade Raffi Torres, who I believe would be the perfect fit.
To fill the center position, the Penguins need a faceoff specialist and someone capable of playing a defensive game. Here are some interesting names: Stu Barnes, Michael Peca and Curtis Brown.
Lastly, with Laraque gone, the Penguins are in need of an enforcer, someone to protect the superstars. While no one has the fighting skills of Laraque, there are a few young, cheap fighters who certainly are more than capable of patrolling the ice. Some names that come to mind are: Darcy Hordichuk, David Koci and Jody Shelley.
Wow, I’m Finally Done
After more than an hour of typing, I’m finally done. With that being said, there are a few things I want to mention.
First of all, I have a feeling Shero will make a few trades before the draft to replace some of his lost draft picks used to acquire Hossa, Dupuis, Gill and Laraque. As it stands right now, the Penguins won’t make a selection until the fourth round, and I think that will change.
Last year, we saw the Nashville Predators trade Kimmo Timonen and Scott Hartnell to the Philadelphia Flyers for a handsome return, knowing full well they would lose these two players to free agency anyway. Don’t be surprised to see the same thing happen with Malone, Hossa and/or Orpik if a deal doesn’t seem likely to be reached before July 1.
There’s also talk of trading Sydor and Whitney. While I understand the reasoning, I don’t necessarily condone either. Sydor is older and expensive, but the experience he brings to the defense is invaluable. With that being said, if Shero can land a third or fourth round draft pick, Sydor’s gone.
Whitney is a much more difficult player. He had a spectacular rookie season, but took a step backward this past season. Even so, he has shown such promise that dealing him would be difficult. The only way he is traded is if Shero can receive an unbelievable return, which seems unlikely, but not impossible.
Lastly, note that what I have written above is what I believe needs to be done for the good of the team as a whole. I certainly don’t want to see a player such as Malone wearing another uniform, but I just don’t believe he is as valuable as Hossa, who has the skills to double Malone’s offensive stats, while outperforming him defensively as well.
I hope you enjoyed this read, and I would love to hear what you have to think!
Comments
Dabich
Jun 9, 02:07 PM
You know I want Malone to stay, he’s my favorite player. But…I see your logic. My heart just doesn’t want to agree.
I’ll be watching what happens in the upcoming weeks to see how it all pans out.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 9, 02:17 PM
He’s one of my favorites as well. A player that is as tough as he is, as likeable as he is, and as talented as he is is a player that is difficult to part with. But for the $4.5 – $5 million I suspect he will make, I’d rather see the money go to Hossa, who I presume will make in the $7 million range. he’s just better all around and he fills the role as Crosby’s winger — something this team has lacked since Crosby was drafted.
Dabich
Jun 9, 02:23 PM
Oh I agree Matt, it just sucks. Especially since he lives in the Pittsburgh area.
socket
Jun 9, 02:45 PM
I like what you’re thinking. I broke this down in a similar way recently and ended up with almost the same outcome. I like Malone a lot, but I think it’s time for him to go in order for Hossa to stay.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 9, 02:54 PM
I suppose trading Whitney would free up some space to retain Malone — but I’m not sure I like that move. We don’t know how Goligoski will play in the NHL, and at this point, he’s just too small to step in right away. Plus, Letang was great all year, but really looked like a fish out of water in the Finals. I’ll chalk that up to being a rookie, but he wouldn’t be the first solid rookie to plateau. If that happens — and I’m not suggesting it will — the Penguins would be in bad shape.
Eric
Jun 9, 08:04 PM
I agree with most of what you’re saying Matt. Excellent work, as always.
- I think the amount of money left on an UFA LW wouldn’t be much. So a player of the caliber you mentioned, would be appropriate. Signing a player always tricky. We experienced it first hand a few times. Nils Ekman did well in San Jose along side big Joe Thornton. Logic could’ve suggested that Crosby would make him just as good in PIT. Just didn’t work out, for whatever reason. But I do like a player like a Hagman or Huselius, on the surface. I think one thing that Shero has gotten better in the past year is relying on his years of experience in the NHL. Picking up players that he’s had an eye on for several years. Raffi Torres, is a player likely to be gone from the Oilers. However, his injury plagued season of 07-08 could be risky, despite his three consecutive 80+ game seasons years before.
- You’ve convinced me about the Malone issue. I think finding a player to play on the top line with Crosby has finally been found with Hossa. It’s about time he finds someone. However, losing a player like him will likely increase Staal’s role tenfold. Staal would be the only offensive option to stick in front of the net on the power play. Thus, he’s taking more abuse and it could wear down a guy who also has to kill penalties. While I think moving Staal to LW would work, I do think keeping at center should be a top priority. But, if they can’t – he’s capable of making the switch. With that being said. Do the Penguins entertain the thought of moving Talbot to a LW position for a bit? Or even think of elevating Kennedy? Both are players who are fringe 3rd line players, but could be looked at should they come up empty in Free Agency.
I do agree with you that Fleury is the #1 RFA to sign this off-season. After that, I also agree that the emergence of Orpik has been something we’ve been waiting for since he was drafted. I think he’s ready to take the step to the next level, and hopefully it’s in a pens uniform. Like I said before, you’ve swayed me a bit to lean towards Hossa instead of Malone. As Malkin already has his winger in Sykora. I would be happy with either. But, I do think that keeping a player of Hossa’s talent would make Sidney Crosby that more dangerous.
All in all, not easy decisions. But, I’m starting to have more and more faith in Shero. He’s not perfect, but he’s not putting the team into much danger.
In Shero we trust.
Kyle Dreibelbies
Jun 9, 10:10 PM
One other minor detail to add… D Deryk Engelland (think poor man’s minor-league version of Hal Gill) is signed for 2 more years.
He has 0 chance at making the team this year, but may be an injury call-up the year after.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 9, 11:07 PM
Tom, Roberts has stated very outwardly that, if this is his last season, it IS his last season. He said that, once he retires, he is done with hockey until his son grows up. He missed too much of his daughter’s youth and doesn’t want that to be the case for his son as well. He will not be on the staff in any way, shape or form. Count on it.
Also, forget about Esposito. He’s not returning. Period. Atlanta didn’t just trade for him to trade him back to us. It’s a ridiculous notion to even ponder. To add, if Whitney and Sydor are as bad as you suggest, how will they land a prospect AND a first round draft pick from a team with a high pick?
Lastly, many have debated the difficulties of keeping the Penguins’ core in tact. Your numbers are interesting, but they are including some very iffy scenarios (Whitney/Sydor being traded, Goligoski adding 15 pounds to make him NHL-ready, players making X amount of dollars).
As I said before, my analysis is based primarily on the team not making any trades, and without the assumption of any specific salaries for free agents, as there just is no way of telling what they’ll make. Orpik easily could make $4 to $5 million from a team like the Rangers if he hits free agency. Then again, he just as easily could choose to stay where he has played his entire career and make $3.5 million. We just do not know. That’s why speculating numbers just doesn’t work. There’s a reason why every expert out there is discussing the reality that the Penguins will not be the same team next year.
Eric, I truly believe there is no right or wrong move with choosing between Malone and Hossa. Malone brings so many intangables — leadership, grit, intensity, a willingness to fight, etc — but his stats aren’t nearly as good as Hossa’s. Hossa brings big time numbers and star power, but he doesn’t have the intangibles Malone has. But, when you weigh it, points and defense win games, intangibles only help to win — that is why I choose Hossa.
Kyle, solid point. He was left off the list simply because I don’t perceive him to be an NHL candidate for the 2008-09 season.
Andrew R
Jun 9, 11:22 PM
Always good analysis Matt, but I have to disagree on the Malone/Orpick question. If we keep Hossa at a reasonable price, we can only keep one, if not neither. Supposing we can only pick one, it should be Malone.
I think we are overvaluing Orpick, which is always easy to do following such a stellar playoff performance. Many players have surged during long playoff runs before signing big contacts. Fernando Pisani scored a regular season career high of 18 goals in 2005-2006, and then went on a playoff tear and scored 14 goals during the Oilers surpring run to the Cup finals, including a dramatic shorthanded overtime winner during the Finals. Pisani resigned with the Oilers that summer to a 4 year, $10 million contract. Since then, he has scored 27/23/50 in 133 games.
While Pisansi has only cost the Oilers $2.5 million per year in cap space, Orpick will certainly be a much more expensive resigning. My point here is to stress that we cannot get caught up in the playoff drama. While Orpick’s physical play makes him unique among Pens’ backliners (and thus increases their need to resign him), we cannot get caught up in the last few weeks. This is a player who was a healthy scratch for four games and was moved to the wing for a few games earlier this season. Whether those low stints were the result of poor play or his tenuous relationship with Therrien or both is up for debate, but the fact remains that Orpick has never displayed nearly such a high level of play for an extended period.
While it is possible this playoff was a catalyst for an upward arc to Orpick’s career, risking a $4.5 to 5 million dollar contract on a few weeks of work would be unwise for the Pens’ long-term cap solvency. Orpick is exactly the kind of defensemen who receives compensation on the open market that outpaces his production (see Jay McKee). While we may try to make Orpick a priority, the forces of the open market will most likely put him out of our price range and Shero would be wise to remain conservative in dealing with him.
Malone and Hossa should be the priorities. Hossa is a top-15 talent in the league, has meshed nicely with Sid (who unabashedly endorsed keeping Hossa), and plays the kind of defense that wins championships. He is a player with 92 and 100 point campaigns on his resume. Playing with Sid for a full season could see him top three figures again and pushing Sid to a potential 135-140 point campaign (assuming they both remain healthy).
As for Malone, he is the only player on our top two lines who is capable of playing the tough minutes in front of the net. He has blossomed offensively and is on our top PK pairing with Staal. His leadership, willingness to pay any physical price, and chemistry with Sykora and Malkin demand his resigning.
As for the people who always want to move Staal to wing, he is a centerman through and through. His 29-goal campaign while playing partially as Malkin’s winger continually gets brought out as proof of his capability of shifting to wing, but he has repeatedly expressed his comfort at center. He even won about 51% of his playoff draws. Staal has monster potential to be a do-it-all, defensively sound, 30 goal scoring center. Moving him to wing could stunt his development. Move Talbot to wing if need be, but leave the 19 centerman right where he should be: in the middle.
The next few weeks will be anxious and fascinating to follow.
In Shero We Trust.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 9, 11:54 PM
Andrew, very solid perspective that very well might happen. You make an interesting point that stay-at-home, physical defensemen are often overvalued, and that certainly will work against the Penguins. Your scenario is very likely — I just hope another physical defender of some sort is brought in as a replacement if this happens. The Pens’ blueline is known to be soft as it is. Take away one of the league’s top hitters and it becomes even softer. That can’t happen unless someone else is brought in to fill the void.
As for Staal, I tend to agree that he should be left at center, though I also see the very strong case for moving him to wing. When it comes down to it, the Penguins will have to do what they feel is best for the team. If they feel goals are more important, and that player earning a nice dollar should be on the top lines, Staal could be a winger. On the contrary, if they are comfortable having a third liner making in the $4 million range and want to focus on a balance of offense and defense, he’ll clearly stay a center.
Tom, until I see something from Shero that indicates he might trade Whitney, I’m not even considering it. He has stated time and again that Whitney is part of his core, which is why he received the contract he received. And, if you look at Shero’s track record, he isn’t known for saying one thing and doing another. Sydor, on the other hand, is a good possibility to be traded.
You’re entitled to your opinions. But I completely disagree with most of them. Until I see Goligoski with 15 extra pounds on his frame, I don’t even consider him an NHL candidate — anyone who follows that Baby Pens will tell you the same. They’ll also tell you his defense is worse than Whitney’s (which, by the way, was quite good in the finals, though non-existent through the initial three rounds). Goligoski may have a ton of offensive flare, but his overall size and game just aren’t ready for the NHL right now. Maybe that changes in September with a solid offseason. But I’m not counting on it at this point.
Pens1967
Jun 10, 09:23 AM
I agree with a lot of what’s been posted, but there’s no way the Pens will be trading Whitney. Next to Letang, he’s their youngest defenseman and is the heir to Gonchar’s role. They signed him to a six year contract because they consider him a core player. Otherwise, Tom’s salary
numbers are quite sensible to me.
Orpik and Malone are interesting cases because their value is probably highest to the Pens and not to other teams. With Orpik, any GM who’s thinking about spending a bundle to sign him, has to ask
himself if Orpik’s play is a result of his
game coming into its own or of his being paired with Gonchar. Gonchar played with 3 different partners last year and each one, Eaton, Scuderi and Orpik, played the best hockey of his respective career. Is that a coincidence?
In Malone’s case, a lot of speculation is that MN will offer him a big contract, but if you look at their cap numbers, they don’t have that much room AND they have to try to re-sign Marian Gaborik, who’s a UFA next year. My sense is that the only other team Malone would leave Pgh for is MN and it’s not at all clear they can afford to make him an offer.
Finally, I don’t see Roberts (retire), Conklin (Sabourin under ct), Laraques, Beech or Eaton back next year. I read somewhere the Pens might buyout Sydor(they have 1 buyout left until a new CBA).
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 10, 09:45 AM
Tom, it’s not that I value Whitney over Malone. It’s that there isn’t a single player under contract ready to fill in for him, and there are no sufficient replacements on free agency that will come cheaply. Malone is a great player, but he is easily replaceable by someone who likely will make half of what he makes. It’s beside the point. We can argue into we’re blue in the face. The fact is, Shero has repeatedly mentioned Whitney as one of his “core” players. And he has repeatedly said he is not trading away his “core.” With a track record of being very candid, it’s easy to add two plus two and realize that Whitney is going nowhere — whether you or anyone else likes it or not.
Pens1967, you make some excellent points, one of which I never really considered. I’ll address your points chronologically.
I think you’re dead on with Whitney regarding Shero’s comments. He’s a man of his word, and his word is that Whitney is part of the core. Just as Esposito is not returning to Pittsburgh, Whitney is not leaving Pittsburgh.
Here’s the one point I disagree with: Orpik and Malone are more valuable to other teams than the Penguins…if that makes sense. You see, in free agency, teams go crazy and sign players to big contracts because of monster playoff runs and because of reputations. Both players turned it on in the second half of the season, increasing their value. Both players also had historic moments (Orpik’s hit parade and Malone’s puck to the face). I see both being offered a significant amount of money on free agency — if they make it that far. And, by significant, I mean in the $4 million range for Orpik and $5 million range for Malone. But that’s just speculation on my part.
I too believe the players you mentioned won’t be back, but I wonder if they’ll utilize their last buyout on Sydor? I suppose if they can’t find a trade partner and they need the $2 million, they might have to.
Pens1967
Jun 10, 11:12 AM
Matt, while I agree that some GM might make want to overpay for Orpik or Malone, the cap makes that pretty hard to do without risking the future of your team. The owners did an excellent job of closing all the loopholes the NFL and NBA salary caps have. (The limits on the number of buyouts is a great example of a potential one that was cut off.) As much as we fans might want to overvalue our own team’s players, the GMs simply can’t afford to do that because they’re stuck with the fiscal consequences.
The other thing we don’t always consider is the other side of UFAs and that’s the suitors. The teams that have a lot of cap space aren’t generally the kind of teams a prime UFA would consider unless it’s 100%
about the money. There are other teams that might be suitors but they have their own UFAs and RFAs to sign. The Rangers for example will probably end up overpaying for Rozival leaving them less for Hossa or Orpik or someone else. Phoenix has a lot of cap space, but they also have few players signed for next year.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 10, 11:41 AM
Pens1967, good points again, but I’ll counter with this: Who thought Briere, Hartnell, Timonen and Biron would get the contracts Philly offered them? What about Drury and Gomez in New York? How about Ken Klee a few years back? And what about Edmonton making offer sheets to Dustin Penner and Thomas Vanek?
Big contracts are still out there, and there are plenty of teams with cap room and few free agents to retain. I’m not suggesting either player will get unbelievable money, but I think the type of performances these two had certainly will falsely increase their value to some GM looking for a quick fix.
Personally, I don’t think Orpik is worth more than $3.5 million and Malone more than $4 million — but that’s just me.
Pens1967
Jun 10, 12:58 PM
Matt, I agree the contracts the Flyers gave out were way above market value, but look at what those contracts have done to the team. The Flyers are close to being in salary cap hell. They still have to re-sign Jeff Carter and RJ Umberger and shore up their defense corps, too. The same with the Rangers.
If you look at NHLnumbers.com, the Pens have around the 9th most cap room of all the NHL teams. If Hossa, Orpik and Malone weren’t with the Pens, we’d be talking about the Pens having enough money to land them, wouldn’t we?
Yesterday I briefly looked at the Pens UFAs and the NHL season stats to get an idea how they performed compared to like position players. I agree with your top end assessment of Orpik and Malone except, I’d probably put Orpik at 500k to 1M less.
If you have the time, it would be interesting to put up a list of all teams with 2008/09 cap room number and their own significant UFAs/RFAs needing re-signed.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 10, 01:30 PM
Pens1967, that’s definitely something we’ll look into doing!
Dabich
Jun 10, 01:41 PM
You guys (Matt and Pens1967) are giving me lots to think about here…please continue the pros and cons LOL!
Pens1967
Jun 10, 03:28 PM
Matt, thanks for taking my suggestion to heart.
Dabich, as a newbie here, I’m flatterd by your props. :)
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 10, 04:22 PM
Pens1967, you may be a newbie here, but you clearly aren’t to the sport and to the Penguins. I truly hope you stick with us and add your insight throughout the summer and into next season.
By the way, how did you find us?
Pens1967
Jun 10, 05:08 PM
Matt, thank you very much. I’ll probably keep stopping by. You have all made me feel welcome.
I got here from a link from LGP. I was always a big Pgh sports fan, but had never really followed hockey although I was aware of the Hornets. I don’t know why I began following the Pens, but I did starting with their very first year in 1967 (thus my pseud). I remember Michel Briere, Val Fontaine, Andy Bathgate, Les Binkley, Duane Rupp, Bob Woytowich, Andy Brown, Battleship Kelley, Apps, Pronovost, MacDonald, Burrows… Then I went to my first game. I was hooked! What a great sport played by wonderfully skilled athletes.
I’ve had to follow the Pens from afar for the last 30 years until I was able to return to this area last year.
Eric
Jun 10, 07:41 PM
Aside from re-hashing most of what’s been said before, I’ll state an opinion on something new but relative to the previous responses and initial story.
I think that the Penguins DO have the cap room to sign a majority of their players. I’ve heard reports that the primary owner (even though, I don’t think the percentage of ownership is public anymore?), is more than capable of spending to the cap. Something this team hasn’t had in… a while. With that being said, I think the Penguins are going about this cautiously. And I agree with it. I think the demise of the recent Lightning team, as well as past NHL teams who ended up spending too much has left a beneficial impression on the Penguins.
Would this be the time to push the salary commitments closer to the max? Or do they want to keep some buffer room for unforeseeable circumstances? The impression I get is that they will be willing to spend, as long as it makes sense now – and 2-5 years down the road. Of which can be tricky, but I’m hoping that they can manage.
Pens1967
Jun 10, 09:25 PM
Eric, that would be Ron Burkle. IIRC, the most recent Forbes 500 has him as the 91st richest man in America. He’s a billionaire and you generally don’t get that rich without being highly competitive.
It’s been reported that he has given the OK to ensure Malkin, Staal and Fleury are inked to long term contracts. I see the Pens being like the Steelers, keeping their core players and filling in the holes with draft choices and affordable FAs.
Pens1967
Jun 10, 10:14 PM
Some new news:
http://www.theinsideronpittsburghsports.com
This says talks have begun with the Pens evidently willing to offer Hossa 7M/year. It also claims Hossa wants more than 4 years, but this conflicts with what Hossa said last summer in a Slovak newspaper interview where he was quoted saying he preferred 4 year contracts.
The story also says the rumor is Malkin wants 6 yrs for 54M (avg 9M/yr).
This is right in line with Tom’s estimated salaries that could fit under the cap.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 10, 10:59 PM
Pens1967, I sure hope that report — and Tom’s estimates — prove to be accurate. If this team can stay together, championships will come. I just have my doubts — and this coming from an optimist.
Pens1967
Jun 10, 11:23 PM
Matt, Shero and ownership have been preparing for this day for the last two years. I have confidence they’ll be able to keep most, if not all, the key players in the fold.
Pens1967
Jun 11, 09:47 AM
First, the LGP regulars believe TIOPS is not a very credible site, so take what was reported there in my post with a grain of salt. Apologies to F-F readers.
Second, Fittipaldi at the Post-Gazette reports Malone’s agent met with Shero yesterday. The headline of the article names Fleury, Hossa, Malone and Orpik as top targets. Trying to read between the lines of Liut’s comments, there seems to be grounds to get a deal done.
Pens1967
Jun 11, 09:57 AM
Tom, I think your estimated salary numbers are reasonable. My own cursory review of salaries for same/similar players agrees with yours.
I’ve read that the Pens may either try to trade or buy out Sydor, so it seems they agree with you on that one.
But, Ryan Whitney isn’t going to be traded. And Goligoski isn’t ready to play in the NHL next year. Given his skill set and age, Whitney’s current contract is below market value. It’s simply not realistic to assume the Pens would trade Whitney essentially to keep Laraque and Ruutu, both 3rd/4th line role players.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 11, 10:09 AM
Tom, I never argued your numbers, as they certainly would fit into the estimated salary cap. And I never argued that Whitney was better than Hossa or Malone. Read what I am saying: Whitney WILL NOT be traded. End of story. That means his $4 million is on the books and MUST be counted into any salary cap scenario.
I want every one of Hossa, Malone and Orpik to be retained, as they all are quite valuable to this team. But I just don’t see it happening. When all is said and done, if I am wrong, I’ll gladly admit I was wrong.
Until then, I don’t care what number proposals are put forward — regardless of how realistic they are — as they are nothing more than speculation and assumptions. No one knows what these players could get offered as UFA’s.
Tom, I’m done with the conversation, as you’re clearly making it into a one-sided argument, where you see nothing but what you want to see.
Eric
Jun 11, 07:02 PM
Tom, I don’t think anyone is arguing with your numbers. However, the issue of Sydor and Whitney have been beaten to death. I don’t agree with any part of dealing Whitney, unless you plan on spending the same amount to sign a different UFA – which would likely be pointless.
You have mentioned that the Pens start using “what got them there” which from what I interpreted was the youth movement. Ryan Whitney is only 25 years old, and about to enter the stage where defensemen start to hit their prime years. There is a reason why defensemen typically take 2-3 years of development, even in the NHL, to mature into the players that they’re likely to become. Whitney is a player who I see as fairly similar to Sergei Gonchar when he was in Washington. Got a rap for not being able to play defensively, and was mainly out there for offensive reasons. Giving up on a player of Whitney’s stature would be giving up on him way too soon. As Matt has mentioned ad nauseam, Shero hasn’t shown much indication in trading a player he has already identified as a core player. In that sense, it’s a moot point.
I think most of us understand your points and your views towards Sydor and Whitney. But, I don’t think the issue of trading Whitney has much reason to be boughten in to.
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