Marian Hossa Will Test Free Agent Market
Jesse Marshall | Pittsburgh Penguins
Jun 21, 02:24 PM | Hype this story!
The Penguins got some good news when Nathan Moon fell into their laps, but things turned disconcerting just after that when Marian Hossa declined an offer from the Pittsburgh Penguins and opted to test free agency.
Hossa helped lead the Penguins to the Stanley Cup Finals and said he would take less money to play for a winning team.
Ray Shero was quoted in the Trib as saying the following:
I’ve talked to him and his agent (Ritch Winter) lots, and we look to be his first choice,” Shero said. “But he’s gonna go to July 1 just to make sure, and we’ll see what that brings both of us. We’ve made a very fair contract offer. From Marian’s standpoint, he wants to be sure. He knows the risks involved (in testing free agency), and so do we.”
Stay tuned to Faceoff Factor for updates on the free agency situation of the Penguins.
Comments
Pens1967
Jun 21, 03:30 PM
Interesting development and good for Shero for not breaking the bank to try and keep him. I think this backs up Starkey’s observation that most intense negotiations would be between Hossa and Winter. I would venture to speculate that Hossa is doing this to appease Winter. If he decides to sign with the Pens, that’s great, if not, well it was nice while it lasted.
Pens1967
Jun 21, 04:08 PM
A little more detail from Jory Rand’s Pens blog at KDKA.com:
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Just got a call from a member of the Penguins PR Staff to go over the latest developments with Marian Hossa.
While there are headlines stating talks have broken down or been suspended between the two sides, the Pens wanted to clarify that it’s not an acrimonious situation. Simply put, the Penguins made an offer, Hossa has just decided to wait until July 1st to make a decision, just to see what happens.
The Penguins also want to make clear that while it is a risk for them to have Hossa test free agency waters, this could also be a risk for Hossa, in that their offer may not be around come July 1. There will be numerous other free agents the Penguins may sign alleviating the need for Hossa, so while they respect a players choice, they will continue to move forward into the free agency period.
They did make clear though, that having Marian Hossa was great this past season, and they would like to see him back, hence their offer (which they didn’t make public the details of).
Hossa has made it clear he wishes to come back to the Penguins, that they are one of the top teams on his wish list, but we’ll have to wait until July to see what comes of the situation.
Long story short: Pens made an offer, Hossa wants to take it, but also wants to wait for free agency in the off chance he receives an offer that dwarfs the Pens offer. Sounds good for the Pens, but as we know, anything can happen.
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TheOneAndOnlySurge
Jun 21, 11:52 PM
Looking at the talent available, it is a huge loss to go to July 1 not signing Hossa. The chances a team will make a better deal and still be a cup contending team is very high. Sid and now even Malkin have stated that keeping Hossa is a big deal. He provides a scoring touch as well as some great defensive play. With this annoucement I can’t think anything but Hossa is gone. Which leaves some huge ?‘s as to where the Pens will head. This also makes you wonder how true players statements are. Would Hossa truly take a pay cut to play with the Pens? Obviously not. Which makes you wonder will Malkin?
Pens1967
Jun 22, 03:51 AM
If you listen to Hossa’s comments after game 6, they are fairly non-commital about staying.
There was an interesting observation by a poster over at LGP that perhaps Hossa’s agent saw the “contenders” suitors drying up quickly and wanted to make sure they “knew” Hossa was still out there. The two biggest contenders, IMHO, the Rangers and Montreal were busy making other plans.
NY is looking at bringing back Jagr (8M).
Montreal just traded for Tanguay and the rights to talk to Sundin. Montreal already has over 41M committed to 5 players and they need to resign both Kostitsyn brothers.
As for the other teams mentioned, Boston is only 6.6M under the cap. They’d have to dump current salary and sign none of their own active roster RFAs to afford a 7M+ offer to Hossa. Detroit could squeeze him under, but they’d expect a “discount”, too, and doubtful offer more than the 7.5M they pay Lidstrom. Plus Detroit has to plan for re-signing Zetterberg before he hits UFA next year.
You may be exactly right that Hossa is gone, but based on the comments from Shero, I’m wondering if this isn’t just a face-saving maneuver by Winter. Shero could have played much harder ball and pulled his offer, but he didn’t.
As for players, they are all different. There’s nothing to indicate Malkin will go back on his statements. After Ovechkin and Sid, he’ll be the highest paid player in the NHL. I think the difference is that JP Barry is doing what Malkin wants. I’m not sure Winter is doing the same for Hossa.
Dabich
Jun 22, 08:45 AM
Well, from a simplistic viewpoint, it’s time to take care of the other players we have to sign. After that’s done, the offer for Hossa may have to drop.
This is worse (or better than) a soap opera!
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 22, 09:33 AM
I think, what has been discussed seems pretty accurate. I want to add this, though:
The contract offer to Hossa remains, but that certainly does not mean Shero is waiting for him. In other words, it will remain until it no longer is feasible. So, for example, if July 1 hits and Shero sees an opportunity to sign someone like Hagman, Huselius or Vrbata, he’ll sign him. If there’s still room for Hossa, the offer remains, but the search also continues. Once the money dries up, so does the offer. If, by chance, Hossa makes a decision soon after July, and there’s still room, he’ll return.
And, to be honest, I’m not as worried about Hossa leaving as I thought I might be. I think it’s a near-necessity to move Staal to the LW spot on Malkin and Sykora’s line, meaning Shero will have the ability to sign two middle-tier wingers for Crosby — or maybe one upper-tier guy (Naslund, Rolston) and one guy coming off a bad season (Fedotenko, Ryder). Hossas a great player, but depth may be better than getting a top-heavy team.
Pens1967
Jun 22, 11:32 AM
I agree that Shero isn’t going wait, at least not long, for Hossa after 1 July. I do think also that the budget for Orpik, etc, is already set and that won’t be affected much by Hossa’s decision. Malone is the guy who’s future as a Penguin is most directly tied to Hossa.
I found a couple of interesting things regarding the Rangers, who many think will be the prime suitor for Hossa. In the NYDN, there was a big story about NY and Jagr both wanting to get a deal done to retain his services. There’s also a story in the NY Post that the Rangers were given permission to talk to Brian Campbell. The interesting part was that the Rangers consider Campbell’s possible cost of 6.5 to 7M is “too rich” for them. If that’s true, one has to wonder how much they’d offer for Hossa.
Maybe I’m way off base and unrealistic, but I don’t think Hossa is going to get a monster offer from a team that’s a better situation than Pgh.
I think the biggest problem is that Hossa’s indecision cost the Pens time to negotiate and sign their other UFAs.
Pens1967
Jun 22, 11:38 AM
Rossi is on 1250 right now. His take on the Hossa talks is that the Pens were never going to negotiate with Hossa, but that they were always going to make him a fair offer on their terms. Rossi said Hossa told reporters after the season that he did want to return to the Pens. He believes Hossa was more-or-less pushed into free agency by his agent.
On Orpik, Rossi thinks Orpik has a mindset more like Crosby and Malkin. He thinks Orpik will trade salary for security, perhaps up to 500k/year.
Tom
Jun 22, 04:12 PM
Jesse, It looks so far that the numbers that I estimated will hold true and that Fleury and Orpik will remain. That leaves Hossa and Malone of the core players. If the other free agents take slight increases or accept the same pay, it leaves the Pens a choice between Malone and Hossa on one hand and Whitney and Sydor on the other as I pointed out previously. I should keep Malone at $4,000,000 to $4,500,000 but not more. I should keep Hossa for $7,500,000 but not more. Should the Pens be unable to agree with Malone and/or Hossa perhaps Caputo, CPZ or Jeffrey can replace them and supply Crosby with a crease crashing left wing and a heavy duty right wing. Looking at what is available for overpayment, I believe that Staal and Jeffrey are the answer. Jeffrey fits tne Malone type. Experience is nice, but a physical, net crasher is what is needed. BGL can also be very effective down low and infront of the net. How about Roberts? He may decide to return. Malone may find free agency less attractive than he hopes and decide to sign. If not, one may have to be sought in free agency, Cory Perry? The result would be the same, Whitney and Sydor or Cory Perry. The numbers do not lie and the more my estimates which I shall attach again, are realized, the more the choices are narrowed.
Player…2008-2009…...2009-2010
Crosby..$8,700,000…..$8,700,000
Malkin…3,834,000…...8,700,000
Hossa….7,500,000…...7,500,000
Fleury…4,500,000…...4,500,000
Malone…4,000,000…...4,000,000
Staal….2,200,000…...3,500,000
Sykora…2,500,000…......?
Orpik….4,000,000…...4,000,000
Gonchar..5,000,000…......?*
Letang…..835,000….....835,000
Gill…..2,100,000…......?
Scuderi….725,000…......?
Goligowski.984,000….....984,000
Laraque..1,300,000…...1,300,000
Talbot…..700,000…......?
* I did not put a pay amount for Gonchar in 2009-2010 because he becomes a free-agent after 2009-2010. If the Pens wish to keep him thereafter, they can negotiate with him for an extension; however, if they wish to replace him, they will have to do so with at least a year to run on his contract if they want any value for him. He is now 34 years old. I do not believe his value to be $5,000,000 when he is 36. Our offensively gifted defensemen at this time are Whitney, Goligoski and Letang in addition to Gonchar. Letang is clearly the one with the most upside if only for his speed, quickness, shot, passing ability, vision and physicality. His development and Goligoski’s are key to the Pens’ blueline future. They could make you forget all about Gonchar and Whitney.
These numbers are not estimates, they are extrapolations based upon the cap and the Pens’ needs. I should think that they are a bit high and there may be a bit more cap room. Management may well value a player differently; however, if they do so they must keep the totals set forth. If there is cap space left, I should sign Conklin for $1,000,000 and waive Sabourin. If not I would still waive Sabourin and promote Curry.
The Pens’ core costs $48,878,000 in 2008-2009 with some $7,422,000 left for others (relying on Spector who estimates the cap at $56,300,000). This list presumes a trade of Whitney ($4,000,000)and Sydor ($2,500,000)(if he waives his no trade clause) to a low level team(s) for a couple of good prospects. Surely given their 2007-2008 salaries) Kennedy ($550,000), Hall ($525,000), Ruutu ($1,150,000), DuPuis ($880,000), Eaton ($1,600,000) and Curry($500,000) a total of $5,205,000 last year they cannot cost that much more. The problem arises in 2009-2010 when Malkin and Staal receive big money; however, considering that Gonchar*, Gill, Sykora and Scuderi all become free agents, some financial or personnel decisions may need to be made although there is no salary cap for 2009-2010. A good idea is to be conservative about handing out no-trade clauses.
Regardless of the course taken, It appears that the Pens’ changes will be minimal compared to most teams. Neither Hossa nor Malone is absolytely worth overpaying. There are other wings available in the Pens’ orginization and in free agency or trade.
I do not believe that either Hossa or Malone will receive huge offers from well positioned teams due to those teams’ cap room remaining. All teams face the cap and free agency. The team that pays $5,000,000 long term for Malone will regret it and have a long term white elephant on their hands. Malone has not been a top notch player without Malkin and Sykora. Similarly, although Hossa has put up substantial numbers in the past, his playoff numbers indicate how much improved he is with Crosby. I believe an offer of $7,500,000 ought to be sufficient.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 22, 06:57 PM
Tom, Whitney is staying. It appears Sydor is staying as well. Jeffrey, CPZ an Caputi are not NHL ready and won’t be in the NHL next season. Neither will Goligoski, most likely.
Laraque is not and should never be considered a top-two line player, and, really, shouldn’t even be considered a third liner. The same goes for Roberts, who just doesn’t have the legs to play top-two (or three) line minutes anymore.
Kiss Malone goodbye. He’s gone. I will be very surprised if he returns, simply based on his actions thus far. I’ll also be extremely surprised if he doesn’t make more than $4 million. Is Briere worth his contract? How about Vanek? What about Hartnell? The question is not whether a GM will regret signing Malone to a big contract, but rather which GM will be the one who regrets signing him for big bucks. Salary cap or no salary cap, GMs make stupid decisions and overpay for players all the time.
Hossa is give or take. Shero’s not going to wait around for him. He’ll get offers of more than $7.5 million. The question is, does he go for money or go for Cups. He’s spoken a big game about wanting to win, but he hasn’t backed up his words yet.
Lastly, why even mention Perry? He’s a restricted free agent, which means Shero won’t touch him with a 10-foot pole — unless he’s acquired through a trade. And, since Whitney is going nowhere, it’s not happening. But, assuming Whitney was to be traded, the way you degrade Whitney’s ability to play hockey — especially physical hockey — what makes you think anyone would be willing to give anything up for him? Better yet, why would Anaheim give up Perry for him, when their team is all about physicality? Either Whitney sucks and has no trade value, or he’s pretty good and has trade value. If he sucks as bad as you suggest he does, he certainly would have no trade value.
Tom
Jun 22, 07:55 PM
Matt, Caputi, CPZ and Jeffrey have the same amount of hockey experience as did Crosby and Staal. They will have little cap hits and can play quite adequately. If you do not trade Whitney and cannot trade Sydor, you cannot keep Hossa and Malone. Do not underestimate the effectiveness of kids. They got the Pens where they are. The free agent market is a place to shop only with great caution. By the way since Columbus signed Umberger do they have $5M for Malone, I don’t think so. Should the Pens lose two stars (Malone and Hossa, it is reasonable to look in house first.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 22, 09:16 PM
Are you seriously comparing Caputi, CPZ and Jeffrey to Crosby and Staal? We’re talking about two players, one of whom is the best in the NHL and another who is clearly a unique talent. None of the players you mentioned should even be said in the same sentence as Staal and Crosby at this point. None of the three will start the 2008-09 season in the NHL, and, at best, one might get some icetime as the season progresses…but certainly not top line minutes. If you’re seriously suggesting one or multiple of them will make any impact next year, you haven’t done your research.
And, as for Whitney and Sydor, what gives you even the slightest indication either will be traded? If Shero was looking to trade either one, it would have happened before or during the draft…not after. Face it, at best, only Sydor will be traded. Whitney is part of the core Shero always talks about. He is not going to be traded. Period. End of discussion.
And, regarding Malone, he’s not coming back. He’s not. He’s not. Read between the lines of everything written in the newspapers, including his quotes. He’s not happy with the way the situation played out. He’s gone, and will get upwards of $4 million. Columbus isn’t the only team in the NHL with interest in Malone.
And, lastly, regarding Hossa, he was given an offer, which he has chosen to keep in his pocket until he sees what else is being tossed his way. Nothing can or will be done with him until after July 1.
Pens1967
Jun 23, 03:47 AM
Matt, regarding Malone, do we even know if the Pens have made an offer or had serious contract talks with him? The only thing I’ve read was early on in the P-G that Liut had approached Shero about a contract, but that Shero basically put him on hold because he was concentrating on Hossa. Shero has now acknowledged that everything and everyone else was on the backburner pending a Hossa decision.
IMHO, Malone’s statement: “I don’t want to be traded” is significant even if it wasn’t made entirely in the context of a player in mid-season with a contract. He
obviously didn’t want to go to Columbus or he and Liut wouldn’t have made public comments. Columbus was evidently ready to pay him handsomely, so it can’t be about money only. I’m sure Columbus would have also thrown a lot of “love” (if he felt unappreciated in Pgh) at Malone during contract negotiations.
Frankly, I didn’t read all that much enthusiasm in either Malone’s or Liut’s comments about testing free agency in July. My sense is if the Pens pat Malone on the head and tell him how much they want him back, he’d be receptive.
henkegbgskea
Jun 23, 06:38 AM
well i just wait and see what Shero can do regarding Hossa Situation even though the ball seem to be in Hossas hands…..
Replacement suggestion for Malone/Hossa..
One i would strongly recommend is Cory Stillman,the other one would be …..
Radim Vrbata…...
am i dead wrong or what do u guys think???
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 23, 07:58 AM
Pens, I haven’t heard anything official with regards to a Malone contract; however I find it hard to believe and quite uncharacteristic of Shero that he didn’t offer something. I take Malone’s comments of not accepting a trade more as a “screw you” to Shero, who clearly hasn’t made Malone a priority. I don’t believe it had anything to do with not wanting to play with Columbus, but rather A) not wanting Columbus to give up assets for him and B) not wanting Pittsburgh to get compensation for him. To be honest with you, I can’t blame him. But, as I said above, I’ll be extremely surprised if Malone returns to Pittsburgh, as I am getting a strong feeling that he feels disrespected at this point. I hope I’m wrong.
Henke, I think both would be nice replacements for Malone and Hossa, though neither would provide the defensive presence Malone and Hossa have.
Pens1967
Jun 23, 08:36 AM
Matt, I can see where you’re coming from on Malone, but I think it’s a two way street. If the Pens felt they could or wanted to get something by trading his rights to Columbus, or any other team, they would. They certainly could make a conditional trade. I’m sure Columbus or another team would say everything Malone wants to hear. I doubt Columbus cared if Malone didn’t want them to give up an asset or not. That’s their call, not his.
They stopped pursuing Malone because they got the message Malone didn’t want to sign with them not because they were worried about giving up “assets” or how he felt about it. They won’t waste their time on him now and will go after other persuadable UFAs.
As we’ve seen with Hossa, players say lots of things and you have to take them with a grain of salt.
I think if Shero truly believes Malone is not returning, he would grant selected interested teams rights to talk to him as SJ is doing with Campbell and Toronto with Sundin.
I do agree that Malone seems to be hurt and disappointed, but that doesn’t mean he and the Pens can’t/won’t reconcile with the right approach.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 23, 08:58 AM
You’re correct with Malone not dictating the trade technically, but why would Columbus deal for a player who flat out said he would test the free agent market. I think that has little to do with patting him on the head or stroking his ego, and much to do with lining his wallet with plenty of green. Columbus isn’t going to give up something when all indications are that it will get them nowhere — even if all they are giving up is a conditional late round pick.
Take this from Aaron Portzine:
“People who think Ryan Malone’s decision to go to free agency is a kick in the gut to the Blue Jackets are dead wrong. The two clubs talked trade preliminarily, but there was never an official offer on the table. It never got to that point. If anything, Malone pulled the carpet out from underneath the Penguins on this deal, not the Blue Jackets. Don’t believe insiderrumormonger-pittsburgh.com either, or whatever it is. That’s total b.s. I believe Malone will wholeheartedly consider the Blue Jackets on July 1. Are they a favorite? Will he sign here? I can’t possibly say at this juncture. But I believe he’ll consider Columbus on July 1. Anybody who says he won’t is talking WAY out of turn.”
And, also look at these few quotes from Malone, again via Portzine:
- “Ryan Malone has told The Dispatch tonight that he plans to test the free agent market on July 1, that he’s not going to negotiate with any club — Blue Jackets, Wild, anybody — before free agency.
“Here’s his explanation: ‘I don’t want any team I go to to give up a possible teammate. So we will wait till the first.’ “
- “I asked Malone point-blank if he would consider the Blue Jackets on July 1: ‘Yes. Yes I would. I am considering other teams as well.’ “
I just see Malone as a person who feels betrayed and unappreciated. Who can blame him? He gave his heart and soul for his hometown team this season. But, at the same time, who can blame Shero for putting his focus on Hossa? I just think the bridges are burnt and he’s looking for a big payday on a team with a shot at winning. And, lastly, why would Shero give anyone permission to talk to him when Malone ruined any potential to trade him? I think Shero still wants Malone to return – -I just don’t think the feeling is mutual.
Pens1967
Jun 23, 10:10 AM
Matt, let me just play devil’s advocate here. If your theory is right, why would Malone or Liut care if his rights are dealt to a team who wants him? Wouldn’t a team like that be more than willing to line his pockets? Don’t you think that would make Malone happy to know some team A) wants him and B) is willing to pay through the roof for him?
As for Portzine, I take him with a grain of salt since he seems fixated on Columbus getting Malone just like we are with Hossa.
I put no stock whatsoever in Malone’s comment about not wanting to give up a teammate. I think they were just a cover, afterthought, etc. And, of course, he’s going to tell teams he’ll consider them.
As for Ryan’s feelings… Well, he needs to toughen up mentally.
The One and only surge
Jun 23, 03:39 PM
I think Malone is gone. He is frustrated with the Pens and he sees a chance to make some big money in his career. This may be the only time he could say that. I would expect him to sign a contract after July 1 for 4 – 5 mil with another team. Sad to see him go, but congrats to him, he had a great year and deserves every penny.
Tom
Jun 23, 08:16 PM
Matt, “And, as for Whitney and Sydor, what gives you even the slightest indication either will be traded?” Common sense. Both are defensive disasters. Neither has a good exit pass. Neither will hit or cannot hit. Neither can clear the crease. Both contribute endless giveaways and permit takeaways by more aggressive players. Both are slow, especially Sydor. Together they take up $6,500,000 in cap space that could be used to better effect otherwise. If Whitney is not traded, the Pens will be stuck with a $4,000,000 stiff for six years. Need more reasons?
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 23, 09:04 PM
Yes, common sense. Shero didn’t sign Whitney to his contract to trade him a year into it. He also didn’t give him that money because he was a horrible player, as you suggest. He also doesn’t discuss Whitney as a core player for his health. And then there’s the small fact that the best time to trade a player is prior to or during the draft. Once free agency hits, trades are minimal because players are available for nothing more than the cost of their salaries. Oh, and then there’s this: if Whitney is so bad, that would make his contract an albatross. If his contract is such an albatross, why would anyone trade for it? I still haven’t seen an answer to that.
Tom, as I’ve said before, you let your personal feelings cloud the reality. Study the whole picture and you’ll see your notion that Whitney will be traded is completely unfounded.
Tom
Jun 23, 11:22 PM
Matt, I have never suggested that the Penguins will trade Whitney and Sydor. I have repeatedly stated that they ought to do so. I thought Whitney’s contract was an immense overpayment when it was executed. I felt that Whitney would never be worth a $4,000,000 cap hit. I felt that Sydor should never been given a $2,500,000 contract and cap hit. I have no dislike for Whitney or Sydor. I merely dislike their contracts and believe that their play this past season does not justify their cap hits. However, I suppose these two slow and unaggressive defensemen will remain with the Pens because it seems that they are or soon will be players for whom there is no market. Merely saying that Whitney is a “core” player does nothing to justify his awful performance in the defensive end and cap hit.
Matt Bodenschatz
Jun 24, 07:48 AM
Tom, I asked you what gave you the slightest indication either WOULD be traded, and you responded with “common sense.” That, to me, is a statement that you think they will be traded. They won’t. And you can say what you want about Whitney and his “core” status, but it means little — just as my comments mean little — as we’re not the ones running the team. Shero is.
We all know your viewpoint on Whitney and Sydor. You’re as infatuated with down-talking them as you are with up-talking Letang. Why does every topic have to revert to the same things?
Tom
Jun 25, 10:05 PM
Matt, Since it seems to have escaped you, I have discussed all of the Pens’ defensemen, their skills and liabilities. Clearly nothing we say will have the slightest influence. If having an influence is your objective, quit writing because it is futile. The very essence of commentary is expressing views. Since I normally write about defensemen and defenses, there are a limited number of individuals about whom to write. I try to be realistic. Anyone who believes that Sydor at $2,500,000 or Whitney at $4,000,000 are better bargains than Letang at $835,000 is free to express that opinion. You are just as free to disagree. I have praised Orpik, even while you and Mike thought he was a bad defender. We disagreed. I have praised Gonchar when others felt he had no value. I have even praised Whitney (not his contract), particularly against the Rags and Fleas in the playoffs. I have also criticized each of these players and defended them against unjust criticism. I do feel that Letang is our most valuable defender and that Sydor is useless, so to that extent your comment may be justified. I believe that both judgments are shared by many judicious observers. Since I have no hope influencing Shero, I merely express my observerations and enjoy reading similar and differing viewpoints. I am only sorry that this displeases you.
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