Pens/Thrashers Blockbuster In The Works?
Matt Bodenschatz | Pittsburgh Penguins
Oct 29, 08:51 PM | Hype this story!
Disclaimer
The following is designed to be a vehicle to facilitate discussion at Faceoff-Factor.com. This is not intended to be a news story and certainly is not intended to spread rumors.
There’s an interesting discussion taking place on the message board of LetsGoPens.com regarding an alleged “blockbuster” trade between the Pittsburgh Penguins and the Atlanta Thrashers.
According to the discussion thread’s originator, a member by the name of “cojac,” former Tampa Bay Lightning general manager Jay Feaster was on NHL Live today and mentioned that GMs Ray Shero (Pit) and Don Waddell (Atl) are in the midst of trade discussions, though he declined to mention which players might be involved.
Not surprisingly, with the tag “blockbuster” attached to this rumor, the first name discussed was superstar winger Ilya Kovalchuk, who seems destined to be traded from an Atlanta team that has no hope for competing this season — or anytime in the near future, for that matter.
And, of course, the big name thrown around for Pittsburgh has been Jordan Staal, who just today was bumped from the second line to the third line.
In a new, interactive feature at Faceoff Factor, I’m looking to you, the reader, to determine the validity of such a story.
Once weekly, I’ll pick a topic that seems discussion-worthy and provide facts on it, then I’ll allow the loyal FF readers to make of it what you choose.
So, here are the facts:
- Feaster is a respected man in the world of hockey. His reputation is not that of someone who would make up rumors for the fun of it.
- The Penguins and Thrashers pulled off an unlikely trade at the deadline less than a year ago.
- The Penguins haven’t been getting much production from their wingers and have Stanley Cup aspirations.
- The Thrashers haven’t been getting much production from anyone aside from Kovalchuk and seem destined to be bottom feeders.
- Thrashers player salaries and salary cap information: here
- Penguins salaries and salary cap information: here
And here are some questions:
- Do the Penguins need to make a blockbuster trade to find success this season? (featured question, asked in the poll below)
- What Thrasher has the most appeal to the Penguins taking into consideration the player’s salary, skill level, and trade value?
- What Penguin is the most tradeable in terms of salary, skill level, age, etc?
- If you could make a trade with the Thrashers, who would it include? (be sure to use the above salary links to be certain said trade fits into both teams’ salary structures)
- Can the Penguins afford to trade for a superstar (not limited to Kovalchuk or any other Thrasher)?
Post your responses to the above questions in our comments section below, and please feel free to add any aspects that may have been left out. Also, don’t forget to vote in the poll below.
Comments
Alex Kirshner
Oct 29, 09:29 PM
TRADE MALKIN!
He’s soff.
/sarcasm.
KG
Oct 29, 09:42 PM
Kovalchuk makes all the sense in the world. He is signed at $7.5MM per for this year and next.
Staal, Goligoski is the type of package that makes sense both ways…
Matt Bodenschatz
Oct 29, 10:18 PM
According to HockeyBuzz’s cap site, Kovalchuk has a cap hit of $6,389,260 each of the next two years, so, while he is making $7.5 million, his cap hit is less, which certainly would be good for the Penguins.
Something to consider: at this point, not knowing exactly when Whitney will return, and knowing how average (at best) the transition game is even with Goligoski, is it worth trading him right now to add a superstar? In other words, will the superstar compensate for the loss of a transition game?
Secondly, Staal and Goligoski likely wouldn’t be enough cap relief to add Kovalchuk’s salary.
Let’s look:
Staal’s cap hit is $2,200,000 and Goligoski’s is $984,200. Combined, they total $3,184,200. Add in the Penguins’ cap relief (amount below the salary cap) of $754,933, and that gives the Penguins $3,939,133 of cap room to work with. That’s just over half of Kovalchuk’s $6,389,260 cap hit. Obviously, that’s not nearly enough to get it done.
With all that being said, I am no cap expert, and there may be 10 hidden gems that change the look of those figures.
Eric
Oct 29, 10:44 PM
Brian Little is the only player on the Thrashers I would be interested in. The rest doesn’t make much sense to me. I don’t expect there to be much validity to a trade like this.
A blockbuster this early in the season doesn’t add up. Atlanta would be best served to ask the rest of the league what they could offer up. As I’m sure there would be a handful of teams looking to talk.
Ben Schmidt
Oct 29, 10:48 PM
As much as I’d love to see Kovalchuk skating alongside either Crosby or Malkin, I just don’t see it happening.
Atlanta doesn’t have to worry about losing Kovalchuk to free agency until 2010. Kovalchuk is their franchise player. If they trade him now, they may as well pull up the trucks and move the franchise now. Or just shut down altogether. The only way they move him is if they’re getting another franchise player in return – and one locked up for a few years, to boot.
Granted, with Waddell and the current (lack of) ownership there, it’s possible something that stupid could happen. Heck, it wouldn’t be the first time the Penguins benefited from another franchise shooting itself in the face (Thanks, Hartford Whalers, for trading your franchise player to the Pens!)
I just wouldn’t bet on it.
As for landing any other superstar – well, I didn’t think the Pens would get Hossa last season, but I don’t think Shero is going to go that route again this year. I think Shero’s going to look for younger players who can stay with the team longer, and possibly come a bit cheaper, or else some complimentary pieces.
I also don’t think Whitney will get traded. Why trade away a key piece of the core? Especially one signed to a very reasonable contract for a long term? Trading him would be very short-sighted, and would go against the philosophy of being a perennial contender.
Michael
Oct 29, 11:06 PM
I can’t help but think looking at Kovalchuk might be the wrong answer. With a loose definition of “blockbuster”, it could simply mean Jordan Staal is going as part of a 4-5 player deal. Perhaps something like Staal and Darryl Sydor to Atlanta, bringing to Pittsburgh Tobias Enstrom, Jason Williams, and their 2009 second round pick?
Atlanta would pick up a veteran defenseman and give Staal a change of scenery. Enstrom can replace a great deal of Gonchar’s productivity, with Jason Williams being a winger with a nice shot to boot.
Sean Leahy
Oct 29, 11:33 PM
Players weren’t discussed because Feaster never spoke of a “trade”. Never trust a message board. Listen for yourself:
http://www.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?catid=616&id=23829
jay s
Oct 30, 12:24 AM
mind sharing what minute that happened?
Sean Leahy
Oct 30, 12:34 AM
it didn’t happen..that’s the point
Tim A
Oct 30, 03:59 AM
Id love to see Kovey here in Pitt but his salary is just way to high. We cant afford to pay him as much as he deserves, which if you have watched him the last year or 2, he does deserve it. He has carried the Thrashers by himself.
Trade wise, I dont think Pitt needs a trade to get their heads back in the game, they are just getting used to all the new guys on their team. The last couple of games Ive watched, even though they have lost, other than the game against Carolina (which I went too :), their new guys seem to be putting up numbers. Fedotenko has a couple of goals and Satan has 3 PP goals. Goligoski is def a force back in the D’s which is fantastic to have while Whit and Gonch are out. Sydor again being another vet player playing awesome back in the D’s, rotating on and off with Hal Gill, which has aroused my thoughts with me on him scoring against us twice. Is his head in the game? Because I dont see him doing much back their other than throwing a big hit every once and a while.
I honestly don’t think anyone should be traded. Yes Staal seems to be somewhere else while he is on the ice, but he is still just a young kid. I would give him another year just because what he did last year with all his short handed goals and such.
DaBich
Oct 30, 05:05 AM
It’s too soon to jump the gun. Give the guys a chance to mesh. ENABLE them to do so. It’s not time to hit the panic button…yet…
Charlie
Oct 30, 06:19 AM
Sorry you got jobbed by idiots at LGP, but seriously…what did you expect? C’mon fellas, this ain’t Hockeybuzz. Talk hockey, don’t spread rumors.
Matt Bodenschatz
Oct 30, 08:39 AM
I think some have missed the point of this entry. It is not about a specific deal, it is about creating discussion of a trade in general. The specific discussion on LetsGoPens was a starting point for a broad discussion here. Do the Penguins need to pull off a blockbuster trade to be successful?
I simply used the Atlanta/Pittsburgh scenario because it was convenient and because the teams appear to be a good match.
The questions remain the same and the discussion, I hope, will continue, as the Thrashers/Penguins scenario was simply a plot advancement for discussion purposes, not an intent to “spread rumors.”
This is an interactive segment on FF, not a news segment or a rumors segment.
TK Penguin
Oct 30, 10:23 AM
I don’t know what you guys are smokin’, but Kovalchuk for Staal and Whitney would be an absolute steal. He had 52 goals with the absolutely awful Thrashers last year. Imagine what he’d do next to one of our centers. And I’m not one to panic this early in the season, but if you honestly believe that someone like Fedotenko will “get it going” this season, you’re on drugs. We need help!
Jess
Oct 30, 11:11 AM
I definitely think that if we want a chance at the cup this year we need to do a bit of rearranging on the offense. I think we should get rid of Staal and Fedotenko. Kovalchuk could definitely be someone who could help us this year. I also think that Pesonen should get a shot on one of the lines.
But I don’t think the Pens are about to make any big moves. They will wait until closer to the trade deadline to make any major changes. I have a feeling that something like the Hossa deal will go down again as the season goes along.
Goligoski has been a really big asset to our team while we needed him. I think that he will stick around, even after Whitney and Gonchar come back into the line-up. We are getting rid of Sydor pretty soon so that gives us more space on the roster. Even if Goligoski can’t be used on the regular pens I think he will be moved to the AHL before he is traded.
Ben
Oct 30, 02:16 PM
Can we please have Colby back as part of the package?
Luke
Oct 30, 04:17 PM
How does a player’s salary change if at all if they are out for most or all of the season see whitney and gonchar. Do they still get the whole amount they were allotted or is there some stipulations written into their contracts?
Bag o' Pucks
Oct 30, 04:26 PM
Since this is all hypothetical and just for fun, what the hey.
I wouldn’t mind dealing for Kovalchuk but, as another poster mentioned, Staal & Gogo don’t free up the necessary cash for Pitt to take on Kovie’s cap number. However, Staal (or another player of his potential/stature) would have to be the centerpiece of a trade, otherwise, why would Atlanta be interested?
Staal, Sydor (in a salary dump), Satan (whom it appears has already worked his way out of MT’s favor, and also a salary dump) and probably the rights to a high-end prospect (a Veilleux or Sneep level prospect) or high round pick for Kovalchuk. The three roster players wouldn’t be enough as Atlanta would let Sydor & Satan walk after the season and, obviously, retain Staal’s rights which would basically make this a Kovie for Staal trade, and that wouldn’t do it for Atlanta. So, including a good prospect or pick would be necessary to complete the deal.
But, moving Staal, Sydor & Satan would free up $8.2M in cap space, which would be enough to take on Kovie. Next season would be interesting as Malkin’s cap # becomes $8.7M. Crosby, Malkin, Kovie, Fleury, Gonchar, Whitney & Orpik would comprise a cap number of just over $41.5M between the seven of them. If the cap doesn’t change the Pens would have about $15M to spread out between 15 players to fill out the roster. They’d have to do some juggling over the summer, they’d have to consider dealing Gonchar or Whitney at the deadline this season, if he’s back from IR. I’d rather retain Whitney than Sarge, personally. Whitney’s $4M cap number is actually quite manageable for what he’s capable of producing.
Matt Bodenschatz
Oct 30, 04:27 PM
Luke, they still get paid the same. The discrepancy is whether their entire cap hit remains the same. In other words, if Gonchar is misses 3/4 of the season, will the Penguins only be on the hook for 3/4 of his cap hit, or will his entire cap hit count once he returns.
Tricky subject, indeed.
Where’s Michael Farkas when we need him?
Bag o' Pucks
Oct 30, 04:57 PM
Cap numbers are calculated on a daily basis based on players on the NHL roster. Unless a player is on the Long Term Injury list, his full cap number counts. In a situation like Gonchar’s (who’s currently on Injured Reserve, not LTI), a team can apply for cap relief but, once Gonch is ready to return, the Pens would need the full $5M in cap space to activate him.
And, actually, I don’t think the Pens should go after Kovie, I think they should see what it would take to pry RW Dustin Brown out of LA. He scored 33 goals last year and his cap # for the next six years is an extremely manageable $3.175M. I’d ship Staal, Sydor & Sneep for Brownie in a heartbeat. Tough to find 30+ goals for $3M/six years.
Bag o' pucks
Oct 30, 09:29 PM
Back to Kovie, I’d also want Grant Lewis from Atlanta for that package, btw.
Luke
Oct 30, 10:03 PM
thanks for the info :)
dave
Oct 31, 04:36 AM
If we made a trade with Alanta, I would like to see a (Kovalchuk/Armstrong) for (Staal/Sydor/Letang/Fedotenko + a 1st 09, + 4th 09 for colby, +5th in 2010 for taking Sydor off our hands)
Dean
Oct 31, 11:26 AM
Dustin Brown is a great player at a bargin price, but Crosby is a playmaker and our franchise and he needs a sniper. Kovalchuck is the answer. If Shero can make it work, i say go for it. You hate losing Staal and Whitney and those would be my big name choises (maybe even include Sykora to streaky)but you need to score goals to win and were not doing it. Sometimes we don’t get 20 shots on goal.
Engelbert Slaptyback
Oct 31, 07:43 PM
Well I “heard” on sports center they were talking about Kovalchuk/Armstrong for Staal/LeTang. Shero and PGH were not happy that Armstrong was traded and the fans (and Max Talbot) would WELCOME him back with OPEN ARMS!!!!!
Bag o' Pucks
Nov 4, 06:00 PM
Yeah, so this topic is pretty buried by now, but it’s so much fun.
Engelbert, I think Kovie/Army for Staal/Letang is a decent deal, but the Pens couldn’t afford it. They’d be dealing $3M in cap space and taking on over $7.5. They just don’t have the room. Kovie/Army (or Kovie alone) for Staal/Gonchar would be perfect. Alas, Sarge is on IR until March.
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